Fuerzas Armadas de Venezuela (2008-2010)

[casper]

EDITADO POR EL MODERADOR

Señor Forista

Evite los comentarios sarcásticos , recordandole que toda comunicacion o comentario a la Moderación debe hacerlo vía MP

Lea las Reglas del FMG

Mod.4

[casper]

OMG!

Miren esto:

China seeks oil for arms in Latin America

Hong Kong, China — China has been making extensive efforts to penetrate the Middle East and Africa, especially by trading arms for oil. In recent years China has also stepped up its efforts to acquire oil from Central and South America, again offering weapons in exchange, as well as space technology. Its top targets are Venezuela and Brazil.

On Thursday Venezuela sent its first communications satellite into space, built with Chinese technology and launched from China’s Sichuan province. The Venezuelan Air Force has also recently purchased three JYL-1 aircraft radar systems from China.

Venezuela under President Hugo Chavez has sought most of its military hardware from Russia. Among other things, it bought 24 Su-30MK2 fighters in 2006, and plans to purchase the upgraded Su-35 in its next stage of procurement, according to a source from the Russian aircraft manufacturer Sukhoi.

At the same time, Venezuela aspires to acquire China’s J-10A fighters; President Chavez has disclosed that negotiations with Beijing have been underway for some time.

Venezuela and China are also close to a deal on the import of 24 Chinese-made K-8 trainer aircraft, according to a source from the Moscow aviation industry. Chavez announced the deal before his visit to China in September, but Beijing has not officially confirmed it.

It appears that China has been actively promoting the K-8 to Latin American countries, however. A source from the Chilean Air Force told the author that China had offered Chile a very attractive price, and even offered to trade the aircraft for other goods.

In the case of Venezuela, it is likely that the aircraft would be exchanged for crude oil. Once Venezuela receives the K-8 trainers, negotiations can be expected to go forward on the procurement of the J-10A fighters.

China in fact has been promoting the J-10As to Venezuela and Pakistan under a new name, the FC-20. Even if Venezuela imports more Su-30MK2s from Russia, the Venezuelan Air Force will still need a large number of cheaper fighters to strengthen its fleet.

The Venezuelan Air Force currently has 23 F-5 serial fighters, 16 Mirage 50s and 22 F-16A/Bs. It may intend to procure the J-10As to replace the existing F-5 serial fighters.

Given the friendly relations between China and Venezuela, it is highly likely that China will send a team of air force pilots to Venezuela to study the latter’s F-16s, in order to understand the features and performance of the U.S.-made aircraft, with which the Taiwanese Air Force is also equipped. Chavez once claimed that he would give F-16 fighters from the Venezuelan Air Force to both China and Russia.

Alongside their military deals, China and Venezuela have been cooperating extensively in the oil industry. In May 2008, the Venezuelan News Press reported that China Petrochemical Corporation, or Sinopec, was signing a US$2 billion contract with Venezuela’s state-owned Petroleos de Venezuela, or PDVSA Company. The contract provides for the joint establishment of a large refinery in China’s southern province of Guangdong.

In 2007, Sinopec and PDVSA announced they would jointly invest US$10 billion to develop Venezuela’s Orinoco oilfield. During his visit to China in 2006, Chavez had already signed an oil contract worth US$11 billion with China. It was after this visit that Chavez made the surprise announcement that he wanted to import J-10A fighters from China.

In 2007, China imported from Venezuela around 4 million tons of crude oil. Though this is not a huge quantity, it is part of China’s strategy to increase cooperation with Latin American countries and diversify its sources of crude oil. China has already obtained the rights to develop 15 oilfields in Venezuela.

Another South American country with which China has extensive dealings is Brazil. In fact, Brazil is China’s key supplier of remote control satellites and digital photographic satellite technologies.

Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer and China’s Harbin Aircraft Company have a joint venture to manufacture ERJ-145 feeder passenger aircraft, with Brazil owning a 51-percent share in the company. The plane incorporates Brazilian technologies, some of which are being applied in the R&D of the Chinese Air Force’s airborne early warning and control platform.

In return, the Brazilian Navy hopes to obtain the technology to build conventional and nuclear submarines. Brazil is currently discussing this with China.

The two countries have been cooperating in the space industry for 20 years. In 1988 they began joint development of an Earth surveillance satellite; to date they have launched three such satellites. In September 2007, China and Brazil launched the 02B high-resolution earth resources satellite.

Brazil has provided China with technology obtained from Western countries, especially French digital image transmission technology, which is responsible for the greatly improved resolution of the 02B satellite. On the other hand, Brazil has obtained from China certain satellite and rocket technologies.

In 2004 China began angling for Brazil’s oil and gas resources; Sinopec signed a memorandum of understanding with Brazil to build the country’s longest natural gas pipeline. In 2004 Brazil only exported to China 1 million tons of crude oil, but in 2007, the total increased abruptly to 2.3 million tons.

An internal Chinese government document on the country’s energy plans discusses the strategic importance of Brazil for China, since it is the 15th largest oil-producing country in the world.

http://www.upiasia.com/Security/2008/10 ... rica/6217/

WTF? J-10 por Petroleo?

salu2

[Carlos Wellington]

Iris escribio :

Vamos por partes , estimado forista:

Los buques de Navantia, no se están encargando, ya hace tiempo que se encargaron y van más adelantados de lo previsto en principio incluso. Se entregarán a su debido tiempo , tal como está firmado en contratos. Serán los contratados: 8 , cuatro patrulleros de litoral (BVL) y cuatro patrulleros oceánicos (PVOZEE) . O sea que son patrulleros cuatro de litoral y cuatro de altura (oceánicos). Y se puede informar de ellos en pág. web. que su armada mantiene y que es ésta:
http://www.mnve.mil.ve/web/index.php?op ... &Itemid=40

Por otro lado, lo de los armamentos o equipos, nunca se deben de dar como comprados cuando es falso que se hayan adquirido, que se tenga la intención no es válido para darlo como hecho, pueden ocurrir muchas cosas mientras y no llevarse a efecto (por lo que sea). Lo que se afirma se debe de demostrar con pruebas y en ello el FMG y sus normas son muy claras al respecto, no se pueden publicar informaciones no verificadas ni contrastadas (es decir si no existen son "absurdas"), sin aportar dichas pruebas de autenticidad: Extractado de las normas del FMG:
4.12.- No se recomienda la publicación de mensajes con contenidos absurdos, que contradigan informes técnicos o históricos, sin el apoyo de fuentes documentales o gráficas, que sean posteados con el ánimo de crear polémica para hundir el foro. Dicha actividad podrá ser considerada como labor de "troll o trolling"
4.
.- Saludos Sres.

Por partes, Navantia, a la empresa española se le encargaron 8 buques para la armada de venezuela, los cuales se estan fabricando en este momento en cadiz, con fechas entrega hasta el 2010, si bien el trabajo esta bien adelantado el encargo por los ocho buques se terminara en 2010.

Ahora respecto a los kilo, cierto el sello de esta compra no se ha realizado sin embargo es una buena posibilidad, dejemos que las cosas se den con calma y cordura.

Al decir que los los subs clase kilo vienen a venezuela no estoy pecando de propagandista, es una compra que se ha tomado en consideracion siempre en las FAS, y si vamos a ver las cosas que han publicado en este foro , yo por lo menos he leido bastantes disparates y por mi parte he otorgado el beneficio de la duda, Colombia recibira unas fragatas clase Oliver Hazard Perry ? quien sabe, Brazil comprara SU-35 para su programa FX-2, es probable, Argentina podra renovar sus cazas con F-16 o Grippen, es un quizas.

Todos estos argumentos y mas he leido en el foro, vamos que este es un sitio de intercambio de opiniones y de informacion, creible a veces y fuera de toda logica otras.


saludos.

[Batalla de Matasiete]

OMG!

Miren esto:

China seeks oil for arms in Latin America

Hong Kong, China — China has been making extensive efforts to penetrate the Middle East and Africa, especially by trading arms for oil. In recent years China has also stepped up its efforts to acquire oil from Central and South America, again offering weapons in exchange, as well as space technology. Its top targets are Venezuela and Brazil.

On Thursday Venezuela sent its first communications satellite into space, built with Chinese technology and launched from China’s Sichuan province. The Venezuelan Air Force has also recently purchased three JYL-1 aircraft radar systems from China.

Venezuela under President Hugo Chavez has sought most of its military hardware from Russia. Among other things, it bought 24 Su-30MK2 fighters in 2006, and plans to purchase the upgraded Su-35 in its next stage of procurement, according to a source from the Russian aircraft manufacturer Sukhoi.

At the same time, Venezuela aspires to acquire China’s J-10A fighters; President Chavez has disclosed that negotiations with Beijing have been underway for some time.

Venezuela and China are also close to a deal on the import of 24 Chinese-made K-8 trainer aircraft, according to a source from the Moscow aviation industry. Chavez announced the deal before his visit to China in September, but Beijing has not officially confirmed it.

It appears that China has been actively promoting the K-8 to Latin American countries, however. A source from the Chilean Air Force told the author that China had offered Chile a very attractive price, and even offered to trade the aircraft for other goods.

In the case of Venezuela, it is likely that the aircraft would be exchanged for crude oil. Once Venezuela receives the K-8 trainers, negotiations can be expected to go forward on the procurement of the J-10A fighters.

China in fact has been promoting the J-10As to Venezuela and Pakistan under a new name, the FC-20. Even if Venezuela imports more Su-30MK2s from Russia, the Venezuelan Air Force will still need a large number of cheaper fighters to strengthen its fleet.

The Venezuelan Air Force currently has 23 F-5 serial fighters, 16 Mirage 50s and 22 F-16A/Bs. It may intend to procure the J-10As to replace the existing F-5 serial fighters.

Given the friendly relations between China and Venezuela, it is highly likely that China will send a team of air force pilots to Venezuela to study the latter’s F-16s, in order to understand the features and performance of the U.S.-made aircraft, with which the Taiwanese Air Force is also equipped. Chavez once claimed that he would give F-16 fighters from the Venezuelan Air Force to both China and Russia.

Alongside their military deals, China and Venezuela have been cooperating extensively in the oil industry. In May 2008, the Venezuelan News Press reported that China Petrochemical Corporation, or Sinopec, was signing a US$2 billion contract with Venezuela’s state-owned Petroleos de Venezuela, or PDVSA Company. The contract provides for the joint establishment of a large refinery in China’s southern province of Guangdong.

In 2007, Sinopec and PDVSA announced they would jointly invest US$10 billion to develop Venezuela’s Orinoco oilfield. During his visit to China in 2006, Chavez had already signed an oil contract worth US$11 billion with China. It was after this visit that Chavez made the surprise announcement that he wanted to import J-10A fighters from China.

In 2007, China imported from Venezuela around 4 million tons of crude oil. Though this is not a huge quantity, it is part of China’s strategy to increase cooperation with Latin American countries and diversify its sources of crude oil. China has already obtained the rights to develop 15 oilfields in Venezuela.

Another South American country with which China has extensive dealings is Brazil. In fact, Brazil is China’s key supplier of remote control satellites and digital photographic satellite technologies.

Brazilian aircraft manufacturer Embraer and China’s Harbin Aircraft Company have a joint venture to manufacture ERJ-145 feeder passenger aircraft, with Brazil owning a 51-percent share in the company. The plane incorporates Brazilian technologies, some of which are being applied in the R&D of the Chinese Air Force’s airborne early warning and control platform.

In return, the Brazilian Navy hopes to obtain the technology to build conventional and nuclear submarines. Brazil is currently discussing this with China.

The two countries have been cooperating in the space industry for 20 years. In 1988 they began joint development of an Earth surveillance satellite; to date they have launched three such satellites. In September 2007, China and Brazil launched the 02B high-resolution earth resources satellite.

Brazil has provided China with technology obtained from Western countries, especially French digital image transmission technology, which is responsible for the greatly improved resolution of the 02B satellite. On the other hand, Brazil has obtained from China certain satellite and rocket technologies.

In 2004 China began angling for Brazil’s oil and gas resources; Sinopec signed a memorandum of understanding with Brazil to build the country’s longest natural gas pipeline. In 2004 Brazil only exported to China 1 million tons of crude oil, but in 2007, the total increased abruptly to 2.3 million tons.

An internal Chinese government document on the country’s energy plans discusses the strategic importance of Brazil for China, since it is the 15th largest oil-producing country in the world.

http://www.upiasia.com/Security/2008/10 ... rica/6217/

WTF? J-10 por Petroleo?

salu2

wow!

de verdad que esto me deja en el sitio !!!

¿Que es WTF?

[casper]

WTF = What the fuck = Que coñ*?

OMG = Oh my Gosh / God = Oh dios mio!

salu2

[Batalla de Matasiete]

WTF = What the fuck = Que coñ*?

OMG = Oh my Gosh / God = Oh dios mio!

salu2

ah Ok

es que nunca he tenido a Bush cara a cara pa decirle tres cosas, no conocia esas palabras

[Batalla de Matasiete]

In the case of Venezuela, it is likely that the aircraft would be exchanged for crude oil. Once Venezuela receives the K-8 trainers, negotiations can be expected to go forward on the procurement of the J-10A fighters. (...) China in fact has been promoting the J-10As to Venezuela and Pakistan under a new name, the FC-20. Even if Venezuela imports more Su-30MK2s from Russia, the Venezuelan Air Force will still need a large number of cheaper fighters to strengthen its fleet. (...) The Venezuelan Air Force currently has 23 F-5 serial fighters, 16 Mirage 50s and 22 F-16A/Bs. It may intend to procure the J-10As to replace the existing F-5 serial fighters.

Ahora esta partecita me ha gustado mucho.

Aunque hay imprecisiones en los numeros de las aeronaves disponibles (por ejemplo, solo tenemos 21 F-16 pues los 3 restantes se han perdido en accidentes; y dificilmente tengamos 23 F-5 operativos del total de 26 recibidos en los dos lotes que recibimos), pero al menos se precisa la necesidad que tiene nuestra Aviación Militar de sustituir su flota de cazas más ligeros, con algun avión menos costoso, pues es poco probable (ademas que seria un desproposito) que equipemos todos los grupos aereos de caza con un mismo avión tan grande y mas cotoso de adquirir como el Su-30 (que encima es biplaza: más pilotos, etc...).

No me parece mala la idea de equipar los GAC-11/12/16 con el nuevo FC-20, nada nada mal

[casper]

Guacala.

Para sustituir los F-5 están bien, pero a G-16??

Bah.. lo minimo que debería ir a G-16 es Rafales o Su-35.

salu2

[Batalla de Matasiete]

Guacala.

Para sustituir los F-5 están bien, pero a G-16??

Bah.. lo minimo que debería ir a G-16 es Rafales o Su-35.

salu2

No vale, el F-16 es un caza ligero. Para superioridad ya tenemos los Su-30.


Una propuesta que yo haria seria la siguiente:

36 cazas de superioridad Su-30MK2 (12 adicionales a los actuales) [para formar dos GAC de 18 aeronaves cada uno]
72 cazas ligeros (sean FC-20, FC-1 ó Mig-35, pero un solo modelo). [para equipar los actuales GAC # 11, 12 y 16]
24 LIFT L-15 (¿K-15?). [para formar un nuevo grupo aereo dedicado exclusivamente a LIFT]
24 aviones de apoyo cercano K-11 (versión ligeramente modificada de los K-11, con mayor armamento y sistemas, incluido un Flir, etc...).
12 aviones de adiestramiento basico K-11.

[casper]

Guacala.

Para sustituir los F-5 están bien, pero a G-16??

Bah.. lo minimo que debería ir a G-16 es Rafales o Su-35.

salu2

No vale, el F-16 es un caza ligero. Para superioridad ya tenemos los Su-30.


Una propuesta que yo haria seria la siguiente:

36 cazas de superioridad Su-30MK2 (12 adicionales a los actuales) [para formar dos GAC de 18 aeronaves cada uno]
72 cazas ligeros (sean FC-20, FC-1 ó Mig-35, pero un solo modelo). [para equipar los actuales GAC # 11, 12 y 16]
24 LIFT L-15 (¿K-15?). [para formar un nuevo grupo aereo dedicado exclusivamente a LIFT]
24 aviones de apoyo cercano K-11 (versión ligeramente modificada de los K-11, con mayor armamento y sistemas, incluido un Flir, etc...).
12 aviones de adiestramiento basico K-11.

Mucho avion, será una pesadilla mantenerlos.

24 Su-30MK2 (Antibuque, Multirol), 48 Su-35 (Superioridad Aerea), 18 K-11 (Entrenamiento medio), 24 L-15 (LIFT). Listo.

2 Lineas Chinas y 2 Lineas Rusas.

saludos

[Ega Correa]

menuda cantidad de aviones..

[Arcangel_180]

De hecho el G-11 no es un grupo de cazas ligeros, es el único grupo de cazabombarderos de la AMBV que tiene capacidad antibuque real, la tenia con los Mirage50 y ahora con su sustituto; los SU-30MK2, lo único que faltaría es completar la flota con mas flanker, tal ves de ahí surge la hipótesis de la posible compra de un segundo lote de SU-30.

Estoy de acuerdo con casper, el SU-30 no es el avión definitivo de superioridad aérea, es mas bien el de transición mientras llegan posiblemente los SU-35, luego los flanker-g pasaran a misiones multirol y antibuque principalmente. Además esta dupla constituirá una capacidad de bombardeo "táctico" bastante respetable.

Lo único en lo que no estoy de acuerdo es en los de los L-15, se debe comprar un numero mayor a 24, para así dividirlos y formar 2 grupos, uno de cazas ligeros y otro para de LIFT.

La idea logísticamente me parece muy buena en lo personal: 2 líneas rusas y 2 líneas chinas como columna vertebral de la AMBV.

Saludos.

[casper]

Lo único en lo que no estoy de acuerdo es en los de los L-15, se debe comprar un numero mayor a 24, para así dividirlos y formar 2 grupos, uno para entrenamiento avanzado y otro para misiones de LIFT.

Entrenamiento y LIFT es lo mismo Arcangel xD

De hecho, LIFT significa LEAD-IN FIGHTER TRAINER.

Saludos

[casper]

:shock:

menuda cantidad de aviones..

Para lo que teniamos antes (F-16, Mirage, F-5), todavía es poco.

Y tengo entendido que eso es lo que se planea... 24 Su-30, 24/48 Su-35.

saludos

[ARV Mariscal Sucre]

Bueno, suena muy ambicioso.

Mi pregunta es cuales son las características y propiedades del J10??

Que dientes lleva??

Etc