In many cases, the Leopard 2’s problems have forced Ukrainian battalions into using them mostly as glorified artillery.
“They were designed by a generation of German manufacturers that hadn’t seen war, and so tended to overcomplicate the system".
Al final del articulo, coinciden que los Challenger 2 y los Abrams tampoco han tenido mejor rendimiento en el campo de batalla.“Leopard 2s were also not designed for the Ukrainian battlefield. They function well when they have good air support, but Ukraine is short on this.”
Pues que Ucrania había ofrecido pagar con los 300.000 millones en activos rusos congelados en Europa, por supuesto eso va en contra de la misión del agente naranja de proteger esos activos para en algún momento devolvérselos a su jefe, obvio no iba a aceptarlo.Silver_Dragon escribió: ↑14 Abr 2025, 22:45 El muy traidor, ha desechado la venta que le pedía Ucrania.... tranquilos, que a todo puerco le llega su san fermin.
https://twitter.com/astraiaintel/status ... 4795887028
Te habrás quedao decansadito y muy a gusto con la sarta de sandeces salpimentada de alguna que otra obviedad que has depuesto.RETOGENES escribió: ↑15 Abr 2025, 17:31 No hay que confundir lo que es un aliado con lo que es un instrumento de guerra proxi o un protegido. Una alianza es un acuerdo de interés mutuo, no algo donde uno paga y otro solo recibe.
Un aliado es quien firma una alianza y se compromete a la defensa mutua. Ni Ucrania , ni ningún país de la antigua URSS salvo los bálticos son aliados de nadie. Tanto Biden como Trump han dejado claro que no consideran a Ucrania un aliado ya que en vez de aportar algo util a la defensa de EEUU , le aportan inseguridad y mas riesgos. Por eso ninguno ha aceptado su ingreso en la OTAN. Así de crudo.
Biden apoyó a Ucrania en la guerra contra Rusia. Si quieres pensar bien puedes pensar que lo hizo por solidaridad , por ayudar a alguien con problemas o lo de defender un orden mundial basado en reglas. Si quieres pensar mal, y hay argumentos para hacerlo, puedes pensar que lo hizo como instrumento para desgastar a Rusia por un precio barato. Hacer una guerra proxi.
De Trump no hay dudas. Piensa que Ucrania no le aporta nada mas que problemas y gastar dinero. Rusia puede aportarle más en su preocupación por China, y además como enemigo es mas peligroso. Para Trump, como se decía de la antigua diplomacia inglesa no hay aliados permanentes sino intereses compartidos. A los aranceles se aplica lo mismo.
La era de este tipo de drones concluira el dia que sistemas laser baratos y capaces de derribar decenas de ellos en muy poco tiempo se implanten en el campo de batalla y sera el fin por lo menos los ligeros o los comerciales,al final estos se tendran que proteger con placas que disipen la energia del rayo pero ya seran drones pesados, mientras tanto la defensa ante estos es una cuestion bastante peliaguda.supalma escribió: ↑15 Abr 2025, 15:28 Hola,
Una presunta evaluacion del Ministerio de defensa Aleman, constata que los tanques alemanes Leopard 2 han tenido un bajo rendimiento en la guerra de Ucrania
In many cases, the Leopard 2’s problems have forced Ukrainian battalions into using them mostly as glorified artillery.“They were designed by a generation of German manufacturers that hadn’t seen war, and so tended to overcomplicate the system".Al final del articulo, coinciden que los Challenger 2 y los Abrams tampoco han tenido mejor rendimiento en el campo de batalla.“Leopard 2s were also not designed for the Ukrainian battlefield. They function well when they have good air support, but Ukraine is short on this.”
Los principales problemas serian: la falta de logistica (y escases de equipos), la escasa cobertura aerea Ucraniana y la indefencion ante drones.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... -tin-cans/
Los drones han cambiado el juego, los tanques y sistemas de defensas antiaereos de ambos bandos han sido vulnerados una y otra vez por estos, sin que aun se desearrollen contramedidas altamente efectivas.
Saludos
Los láseres, aunque tendrán su rol, tal vez sean demasiado caros y exquisitos para ser la solución definitiva. Yo veo una combinación de láseres, EW a lo bestia, drones interceptores y defensas terminales, porque los inmunes a la EW acabarán siendo mayoría (con cable de fibra óptica o guiados por IA). Ahora estamos viendo el momento de gloria de los drones, porque las defensas siempre tardan en adaptarse, pero en unos años veremos como serán los propios drones los que tendrán que adaptarse a lo que se desarrolle para contrarrestarlos. El principal problema creo que será hacer frente a los "enjambres", que realmente todavía no se están viendo a día de hoy.occidental escribió: ↑15 Abr 2025, 21:42La era de este tipo de drones concluira el dia que sistemas laser baratos y capaces de derribar decenas de ellos en muy poco tiempo se implanten en el campo de batalla y sera el fin por lo menos los ligeros o los comerciales,al final estos se tendran que proteger con placas que disipen la energia del rayo pero ya seran drones pesados, mientras tanto la defensa ante estos es una cuestion bastante peliaguda.
Too expensive, too complicated, too error-prone: Field reports from the Ukrainian army show that many of the weapons systems supplied by Germany are of limited use on the front lines. Should the military and politicians here rethink the planned billion-dollar purchases?
According to the paper, the Panzerhaubitze 2000 has "such a high technical vulnerability that its suitability for military use is seriously questioned." The Leopard 1A5 main battle tank, while considered "reliable," is "often used only as makeshift artillery due to its weak armor." The newer Leopard 2A6 is expensive to repair, and field repairs, i.e., repairs at the front, are often not possible.
It has long been known that the Panzerhaubitze 2000 system is considered vulnerable: software problems quickly arise, or the gun barrel overheats and requires replacement, according to reports from Ukraine. However, the howitzer is generally considered a powerful and precise weapon system.
The IRIS-T air defense system is very effective, but the price of the ammunition is too high and "it is not available in sufficient quantities." The PATRIOT air defense system is also fundamentally an "excellent weapon system," but "unsuitable for combat use because the carrier vehicle is too old and the manufacturer can no longer supply spare parts."According to the minutes, the military attaché's conclusion sounds somewhat sobering: "Hardly any German large-scale equipment is fully suitable for war." The conclusion is also: "Complex equipment remains unused (...) The operational value of ultra-modern and complex large-scale equipment is low if troops cannot carry out repairs on-site."
The Ukrainians also apparently have problems with the five Mars rocket launchers supplied by Germany. During the presentation in Delitzsch, the military attaché reported that the systems are "a game changer on the battlefield" due to their long range. However, the German systems are only "partially" usable in Ukraine because they cannot fire the cluster munitions supplied by the US.
According to the minutes, the military attaché's conclusion sounds somewhat sobering: "Hardly any German large-scale equipment is fully suitable for war." The conclusion is also: "Complex equipment remains unused (...) The operational value of ultra-modern and complex large-scale equipment is low if troops cannot carry out repairs on-site."
fabricantes y ejercitos de todo el mundo han estado aprendiendo de la guerra UcranianaThe Gepard, which is primarily used against Russian drones and cruise missiles, is considered "the most popular, most efficient, and most reliable weapon system," the document states. Regarding the Marder infantry fighting vehicle, the attaché described it as "a very popular combat vehicle without any limitations.
Qué gran sorpresa. Los sistemas alemanes tienen problemas de sobreingeniería y son demasiado complicados para el entorno en el que se despliegan. Me suena haber oído algo parecido en alguna parte pero no recuerdo dónde.supalma escribió: ↑16 Abr 2025, 15:58 Hola,
viendo los reportes en los principales medios Alemanes, parece que no solo los tanques han tenido bajo rendimiento en Ucrania, al parecer varios sistemas siguen la misma linea
Too expensive, too complicated, too error-prone: Field reports from the Ukrainian army show that many of the weapons systems supplied by Germany are of limited use on the front lines. Should the military and politicians here rethink the planned billion-dollar purchases?
Al parecer, analizaron 8 sistemas de armas Alemanas que han sido entregadas al ejercito Ucraniano y su rendimiento global en la guerra.
According to the paper, the Panzerhaubitze 2000 has "such a high technical vulnerability that its suitability for military use is seriously questioned." The Leopard 1A5 main battle tank, while considered "reliable," is "often used only as makeshift artillery due to its weak armor." The newer Leopard 2A6 is expensive to repair, and field repairs, i.e., repairs at the front, are often not possible.
It has long been known that the Panzerhaubitze 2000 system is considered vulnerable: software problems quickly arise, or the gun barrel overheats and requires replacement, according to reports from Ukraine. However, the howitzer is generally considered a powerful and precise weapon system.
The IRIS-T air defense system is very effective, but the price of the ammunition is too high and "it is not available in sufficient quantities." The PATRIOT air defense system is also fundamentally an "excellent weapon system," but "unsuitable for combat use because the carrier vehicle is too old and the manufacturer can no longer supply spare parts."According to the minutes, the military attaché's conclusion sounds somewhat sobering: "Hardly any German large-scale equipment is fully suitable for war." The conclusion is also: "Complex equipment remains unused (...) The operational value of ultra-modern and complex large-scale equipment is low if troops cannot carry out repairs on-site."
The Ukrainians also apparently have problems with the five Mars rocket launchers supplied by Germany. During the presentation in Delitzsch, the military attaché reported that the systems are "a game changer on the battlefield" due to their long range. However, the German systems are only "partially" usable in Ukraine because they cannot fire the cluster munitions supplied by the US.
According to the minutes, the military attaché's conclusion sounds somewhat sobering: "Hardly any German large-scale equipment is fully suitable for war." The conclusion is also: "Complex equipment remains unused (...) The operational value of ultra-modern and complex large-scale equipment is low if troops cannot carry out repairs on-site."
Los informes tambien revelan, que los Ucranianos han tenido mejor rendimiento, con equipos mas antiguos, como el Gepard y el VCI Marder, los cuales han tenido buen desempeño
fabricantes y ejercitos de todo el mundo han estado aprendiendo de la guerra UcranianaThe Gepard, which is primarily used against Russian drones and cruise missiles, is considered "the most popular, most efficient, and most reliable weapon system," the document states. Regarding the Marder infantry fighting vehicle, the attaché described it as "a very popular combat vehicle without any limitations.
https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/ ... e-100.html
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschl ... b1c9193b67
https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/bun ... duced=true
Saludos
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