Irán: ¿Conflicto inevitable? (archivo)

Fuerzas Armadas y conflictos de la zona, desde Marruecos hasta Iran. Israel y el Mundo Árabe. El Problema Palestino. La Guerra de Irak. La primavera árabe.
vissioner
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MaXXX escribió:Comienzo contestando a la ultima parte, no, no creo que se solucione invadiendo todo el mundo musulman desde Indonesia hasta Africa, sin embargo, no es eso lo que he dicho, podemos hacer control de daños, minimizarlo, y para eso hace falta implicarse, no invadiendo al tuntun, como dices que propongo, que no lo hago, pero si dando golpes en la mesa cuando hace falta, asi se ha hecho siempre, y se hara.

El terrorismo islámico es de connotación político-religiosa, hasta cierto punto, el dinero es un factor importante, en el caso de otras organizaciones no se, pero si podemos extrapolar desde la insurgencia afgana, puedo asegurar que es el principal, aunque no lo creas, incluyendo a los suicidas.

¿Fuerzas irregulares? el terrorismo es una accion criminal no una forma de combatir, son criminales, no soldados.

No se que tiene que ver mi quote con eso, por muy convencidos que esten (que no lo estan tanto), sin dinero, equipo, y personal capaz, no representarian amenaza alguna.

Respecto a lo del ministro britanico de defensa, pues con todo mi respeto, no conozco la politica de defensa britanica, pero los hechos no acompañan a sus palabras, tienen despliegues en varios de los paises de los que hablamos, con la mision de acabar a bombazos con estos criminales, he trabajado con alguno de ellos, de hecho, en esta labor y si algun dia USA encabezara operaciones militares contra Iran, estoy convencido de que Reino Unido les mostraria apoyo, como socio OTAN que es.


También empezaré por esto último. Lo del ministro britanico (corrijo no fué el ministro de defensa, sinó el jefe de las fuerzas armadas) lo leí el Sabado pasado en la BBC en línea. Este es el Link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/noticias/201 ... a_jg.shtml

El dinero es un asunto importante en cualquier guerra. La diferencia es que estos elementos pueden invertir quizás 50-100 millones de USD$ durante un año (que provienen de fuentes tan diversas como incontrolables) y eso a su vez determina que EEUU y la OTAN tengan que gastar más de 50,000 Millones de USD$ al año solo en Afghanistan. Al final con presupuestos como estos terminarán desgastandose.

El error de EEUU y la OTAN es que han querido sacar un clavo con una retroexcavadora. Esta nunca será tan flexible que pueda desarrollar la tarea con eficiencia (Costos financieros / Resultados políticos)

Cuando Al-Qaida invierte 1-2 USD$, los aliados tienen que invertir 1000 a 500 de los verdes, en una situación de crisis económica esto no es muy inteligente

Lo anterior en el aspecto financiero; si evaluamos el aspecto moral, los terrorista también llevan ventaja. Con una simple pregunta se establece esto: Cuantos Europeos ó Norteamericanos estarían dispuestos a pelear si dispusieran de los recursos limitados de Al-Qaida ó el Taliban y enfrentaran un enemigo como EEUU y la OTAN?...pienso que muy pero muy pocos

También han fallado los aliados en identificar las debilidades reales del enemigo ó quizás si la conocen, pero sería un trabajo muy sucio liquidarlas

Al-Qaida y demás grupo terrorista son como la internet: no tienen un territorio especifico, ni un liderazgo centralizado; como tampoco ven a su enemigo del modo convencional de la guerra (conquista de territorios). Los terroristas desarrollan una guerra psicologica, explotan las vulnerabilidades emocionales del público con la finalidad de someter mediante coacción...parecido a lo que hacen los políticos, pero utilizando medios sanguinarios.

La de ellos es una guerra de resistencia (muy propio de los orientales) hasta que el público en EEUU y Europa se canse del dilipendio de recursos

Los persas tampoco serían la excepción, actuarían con la misma estrategia, pero con recursos más sofisticados, mejor entrenados y mejor posicionados


Saludos,


MaXXX
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Mensaje por MaXXX »

Vissioner, te propongo que llevemos nuestro debate al hilo "conflicto entre el mundo islamico y occidente", ya que se nos ha ido un poco offtopic, de momento, te adelanto que estoy de acuerdo con alguno de tus argumentos, pero con matices :wink: .


Experten
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¿No serán violaciones de 2 minutos e incidentales del espacio aéreo irani? Porque a eso apesta y como son de paranoicos y boconas las autoridades iranies, no dudo ni por un momento que estén sobre reaccionando porque no tienen una manera real de poder parar el abrumador poder aéreo israelí y americano de forma efectiva, con su fuerza aérea de herrumbre y sus viejos misiles SAM.

De todas formas es poco probable que los israelíes o americanos sean tan poco competentes que develen sus planes a Iran de forma tan torpe.


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Mauricio
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A lo mejor es al revés y lo que quieren es ver cómo reacciona el dispositivo de control de espacio aéreo Iraní. No tendría nada de raro... es algo que la URSS y los EE.UU. se hacían mutuamente a lo largo de la Guerra Fría.


Imperialista entregado a las Fuerzas Capitalistas del Mal
Experten
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Correcto, pero también aprovechaban para hacer mediciones electrónicas para desarrollar contramedidas, nada en el sistema defensivo del espacio aéreo de Irán debe tener características medianamente modernas y si las hay deben ser desarrollos autóctonos, que como han comprobado ellos mismos están muy lejos de ser lo mejor.

De todas formas con lo obsoleta y limitada que es la IRIAF, realmente no sería muy difícil eliminar los medios aéreos que pudieran desplegar, sobre todo porque tanto Israel como EEUU tienen medios de superioridad aérea bastante superiores en muchos sentidos a lo que puede poner Ahmadineyad en el aire.


Jagdgeschwader 74 "Viva Zapata" SQdr.
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Mauricio escribió:A lo mejor es al revés y lo que quieren es ver cómo reacciona el dispositivo de control de espacio aéreo Iraní. No tendría nada de raro... es algo que la URSS y los EE.UU. se hacían mutuamente a lo largo de la Guerra Fría.

de acuerdo :noda: midiendo tiempos de respuesta, frecuencias, comunicaciones, que radares prenden y por cuanto tiempo, ese es un juego muy viejo y que los gringos saben jugar a la perfeccion, estuvieron un pocote de años en eso sobre los limites ( y aveces dentro de ellos) de el telon de acero
saludos


"Con el puño cerrado no se puede dar un apretón de manos"
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__DiaMoND__
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que cómico a irán le gusta sobrevolar los cvn y ahora reclaman porque un avión paso 2 minutos su espacio aéreo.


Experten
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Irán prueba un "nuevo" misil.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/151518.html

Es una versión modernizada del S-200, que lleva varios años obsoleto.

De hecho los sistemas de rastreo y ataque para misiones SEAD/DEAD del F-16 Block 40 fueron diseñados para contrarrestar este misil. Lo mismo sucedio con el Panavia Tornado ECR y estamos hablando de hace 20 largos años.


Jagdgeschwader 74 "Viva Zapata" SQdr.
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Al final en lo que queda todo este asunto despues de las declaraciones tan ambiguas y las notas de presa publicadas,es que no van a fabricar un S-200 modernizado.Simplemente,van a aplicar una modernizacion local por fases a las baterias que estan en servicio en Iran.
Lo que me llama la atencion (sean maquetas/señuelos o no) es lo que salio no hace demasiado en uno de los tantos desfiles militares en Teheran.

http://img225.enlaceno.us/img225/5111/iranians300styles01.jpg
http://img199.enlaceno.us/img199/2788/iranians300styles07.jpg
Vehiculo TEL
http://img408.enlaceno.us/img408/2614/iranians300styles06.jpg
Vehiculo con Radar 3D
http://img39.enlaceno.us/img39/1945/iranians300styles04.jpg
Vehiculo con Radar VHF

Un saludo


Experten
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No se pueden apreciar radares AESA en las fotos que ha mostrado la TV Iraní, o almenos no las he visto, pero parece ser todo una patética charada de los líderes persas.


Jagdgeschwader 74 "Viva Zapata" SQdr.
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¿AESA?,que yo recuerde,a menos que se me haya pasado,en ningun momento lo habian anunciado.

Un saludo


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La central nuclear iraní de Bushehr ya entró en funcionamiento
La central nuclear iraní de Bushehr (sur) comenzó a funcionar, declaró el sábado Ali Akbar Salehi, jefe del programa nuclear de Irán, citado por varios medios de prensa oficiales.

“Sin propaganda ni publicidad, hemos instalado todas las barras de combustible y cerrado la cubierta del reactor. Esperamos ahora que el agua del corazón del reactor se caliente poco a poco”, declaró Salehi, sin precisar en que momento se había producido esta operación.

“Esperamos que la central se conectará con la red nacional de electricidad dentro de un mes o dos”, añadió.

La puesta en marcha de la central de Bushehr, construida por Rusia, tuvo unos dos meses de atraso con respecto al calendario anunciado inicialmente.

Las autoridades atribuyeron ese atraso a las condiciones meteorológicas desfavorables, a un “pequeño vertido” cerca del reactor o a la voluntad de tomar todas las precauciones de seguridad para el lanzamiento de la primera central iraní, bajo control de expertos rusos.

En cambio, desmintieron que el retraso tuviera relación alguna con eventuales daños causados por el virus informático Stuxnet, que afectó a unas 30.000 computadoras industriales en Irán. Ese virus, cuya existencia fue revelada a mediados de año, tenía por blanco principal aparentemente las instalaciones nucleares iraníes, cuestionadas por las grandes potencias.
Construída por Rusia

Rusia la construyó pese a las presiones de Estados Unidos y de Israel, que invocaban riesgos de proliferación nuclear.

La central, de la que la AIEA y los países occidentales reconocen ahora que no plantea riesgos de proliferación, estará durante varios años bajo control conjunto de técnicos rusos e iraníes, según el acuerdo firmado entre los dos países.

La construcción de Bushehr, iniciada por Alemania en 1975, fue interrumpida por la revolución islámica de 1979 y la guerra entre Irán e Irak (1980-88). Rusia la reanudó en 1995 después de que Alemania se negara a hacerlo.

El anuncio de su puesta en marcha se produce en momentos en que Irán y las grandes potencias del grupo “5+1″ (EEUU, China, Rusia, Francia, Gran Bretaña y Alemania) tienen previsto reunirse el 5 de diciembre para tratar de reanudar el diálogo sobre el tema nuclear, interrumpido desde hace un año.

El Consejo de Seguridad de la ONU adoptó el 9 de junio pasado una nueva resolución que refuerza las sanciones tomadas contra Irán porque el gobierno iraní se negó a suspender el enriquecimiento de uranio.

Los países occidentales temen que Irán trate de dotarse del arma nuclear so pretexto de programa civil, lo que Teherán desmiente.

Con información de AFP

Imagen


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__DiaMoND__
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ya veo un popeye o un jericho acertandole


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Chechitar_1985
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__DiaMoND__ escribió:ya veo un popeye o un jericho acertandole


si no lo hicieron cuando no tenia combustible nuclear, ahora que esta en funcionamiento no creo.

Israel se "durmio en los laureles" para tomar medidas mas drasticas contra el programa nuclear irani, ahora si lo quieren hacer tendra que ser mas bien de forma nuclear, o utilizando aviones furtivos, de los que no posee todavia Israel (que se ha visto muy interesado en la version silent eagle del F-15),por que se necesita, para evadir la red de antiaereos (asi sea vieja y obsoleta)


Si vis pacem para bellum
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Mauricio
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WikiPerlas para la Historia.

Resúmen y análisis del New York Times acerca de los documentos que tratan sobre Irán:

Around the World, Distress Over Iran

In late May 2009, Israel’s defense minister, Ehud Barak, used a visit from a Congressional delegation to send a pointed message to the new American president.

In a secret cable sent back to Washington, the American ambassador to Israel, James B. Cunningham, reported that Mr. Barak had argued that the world had 6 to 18 months “in which stopping Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons might still be viable.” After that, Mr. Barak said, “any military solution would result in unacceptable collateral damage.”

There was little surprising in Mr. Barak’s implicit threat that Israel might attack Iran’s nuclear facilities. As a pressure tactic, Israeli officials have been setting such deadlines, and extending them, for years. But six months later it was an Arab leader, the king of Bahrain, who provides the base for the American Fifth Fleet, telling the Americans that the Iranian nuclear program “must be stopped,” according to another cable. “The danger of letting it go on is greater than the danger of stopping it,” he said.

His plea was shared by many of America’s Arab allies, including the powerful King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, who according to another cable repeatedly implored Washington to “cut off the head of the snake” while there was still time.

These warnings are part of a trove of diplomatic cables reaching back to the genesis of the Iranian nuclear standoff in which leaders from around the world offer their unvarnished opinions about how to negotiate with, threaten and perhaps force Iran’s leaders to renounce their atomic ambitions.

The cables also contain a fresh American intelligence assessment of Iran’s missile program. They reveal for the first time that the United States believes that Iran has obtained advanced missiles from North Korea that could let it strike at Western European capitals and Moscow and help it develop more formidable long-range ballistic missiles.

In day-by-day detail, the cables, obtained by WikiLeaks and made available to a number of news organizations, tell the disparate diplomatic back stories of two administrations pressed from all sides to confront Tehran. They show how President George W. Bush, hamstrung by the complexities of Iraq and suspicions that he might attack Iran, struggled to put together even modest sanctions.

They also offer new insights into how President Obama, determined to merge his promise of “engagement” with his vow to raise the pressure on the Iranians, assembled a coalition that agreed to impose an array of sanctions considerably harsher than any before attempted.

When Mr. Obama took office, many allies feared that his offers of engagement would make him appear weak to the Iranians. But the cables show how Mr. Obama’s aides quickly countered those worries by rolling out a plan to encircle Iran with economic sanctions and antimissile defenses. In essence, the administration expected its outreach to fail, but believed that it had to make a bona fide attempt in order to build support for tougher measures.

Feeding the administration’s urgency was the intelligence about Iran’s missile program. As it weighed the implications of those findings, the administration maneuvered to win Russian support for sanctions. It killed a Bush-era plan for a missile defense site in Poland — which Moscow’s leaders feared was directed at them, not Tehran — and replaced it with one floating closer to Iran’s coast. While the cables leave unclear whether there was an explicit quid pro quo, the move seems to have paid off.

There is also an American-inspired plan to get the Saudis to offer China a steady oil supply, to wean it from energy dependence on Iran. The Saudis agreed, and insisted on ironclad commitments from Beijing to join in sanctions against Tehran.

At the same time, the cables reveal how Iran’s ascent has unified Israel and many longtime Arab adversaries — notably the Saudis — in a common cause. Publicly, these Arab states held their tongues, for fear of a domestic uproar and the retributions of a powerful neighbor. Privately, they clamored for strong action — by someone else.

If they seemed obsessed with Iran, though, they also seemed deeply conflicted about how to deal with it — with diplomacy, covert action or force. In one typical cable, a senior Omani military officer is described as unable to decide what is worse: “a strike against Iran’s nuclear capability and the resulting turmoil it would cause in the Gulf, or inaction and having to live with a nuclear-capable Iran.”

Still, running beneath the cables is a belief among many leaders that unless the current government in Tehran falls, Iran will have a bomb sooner or later. And the Obama administration appears doubtful that a military strike would change that.

One of the final cables, on Feb. 12 of this year, recounts a lunch meeting in Paris between Hervé Morin, then the French defense minister, and Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates. Mr. Morin raised the delicate topic of whether Israel could strike Iran without American support.

Mr. Gates responded “that he didn’t know if they would be successful, but that Israel could carry out the operation.”

Then he added a stark assessment: any strike “would only delay Iranian plans by one to three years, while unifying the Iranian people to be forever embittered against the attacker.”


The Fears of Arab States

In 2005, Iran abruptly abandoned an agreement with the Europeans and announced that it would resume uranium enrichment activities. As its program grew, beginning with a handful of centrifuges, so, too, did many Arab states’ fears of an Iranian bomb and exasperation over American inability to block Tehran’s progress.

To some extent, this Arab obsession with Iran was rooted in the uneasy sectarian division of the Muslim world, between the Shiites who rule Iran, and the Sunnis, who dominate most of the region. Those strains had been drawn tauter with the invasion of Iraq, which effectively transferred control of the government there from Sunni to Shiite leaders, many close to Iran.

In December 2005, the Saudi king expressed his anger that the Bush administration had ignored his advice against going to war. According to a cable from the American Embassy in Riyadh, the king argued “that whereas in the past the U.S., Saudi Arabia and Saddam Hussein had agreed on the need to contain Iran, U.S. policy had now given Iraq to Iran as a ‘gift on a golden platter.’ ”

Regional distrust had only deepened with the election that year of a hard-line Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

During a meeting on Dec. 27 with the commander of the United States Central Command, Gen. John P. Abizaid, military leaders from the United Arab Emirates “all agreed with Abizaid that Iran’s new President Ahmadinejad seemed unbalanced, crazy even,” one cable reports. A few months later, the Emirates’ defense chief, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed of Abu Dhabi, told General Abizaid that the United States needed to take action against Iran “this year or next.”

The question was what kind of action.

Previously, the crown prince had relayed the Emirates’ fear that “it was only a matter of time before Israel or the U.S. would strike Iranian nuclear facility targets.” That could provoke an outcome that the Emirates’ leadership considered “catastrophic”: Iranian missile strikes on American military installations in nearby countries like the Emirates.

Now, with Iran boasting in the spring of 2006 that it had successfully accomplished low-level uranium enrichment, the crown prince began to argue less equivocally, cables show. He stressed “that he wasn’t suggesting that the first option was ‘bombing’ Iran,” but also warned, “They have to be dealt with before they do something tragic.”

The Saudis, too, increased the pressure. In an April 2008 meeting with Gen. David H. Petraeus, then the incoming Central Command chief, the Saudi ambassador to Washington recalled the king’s “frequent exhortations to the U.S. to attack Iran,” and the foreign minister said that while he preferred economic pressure, the “use of military pressure against Iran should not be ruled out.”

Yet if the Persian Gulf allies were frustrated by American inaction, American officials were equally frustrated by the Arabs’ unwillingness to speak out against Iran. “We need our friends to say that they stand with the Americans,” General Abizaid told Emirates officials, according to one cable.

By the time Mr. Bush left office in January 2009, Iran had installed 8,000 centrifuges (though only half were running ) and was enriching uranium at a rate that, with further processing, would let it produce a bomb’s worth of fuel a year. With that progress came increased Israeli pressure.

After the Israeli defense minister issued his ultimatum in May 2009, the chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi, followed up in November.

“There is still time for diplomacy, but we should not forget that Iran’s centrifuges are working day and night,” he told a delegation led by Representative Ike Skelton, the Democratic chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

That, in turn, led Arab leaders to press even more forcefully for the United States to act — before Israel did. Crown Prince bin Zayed, predicting in July 2009 that an Israeli attack could come by year’s end, suggested the danger of appeasing Iran. “Ahmadinejad is Hitler,” he declared.

Seemingly taken aback, a State Department official replied, “We do not anticipate military confrontation with Iran before the end of 2009.”

So it was that the United States had put together a largely silent front of Arab states whose positions on sanctions and a potential attack looked much like Israel’s.

Banks and Businesses

Despite an American trade embargo and several rounds of United Nations sanctions, the Bush administration had never forged the global coalition needed to impose truly painful international penalties on Iran. While France and Britain were supportive, countries like Germany, Russia and China that traded extensively with Iran were reluctant, at best.

In the breach, the United States embarked on a campaign to convince foreign banks and companies that it was in their interest to stop doing business with Iran, by demonstrating how Tehran used its banks, ships, planes and front companies to evade existing sanctions and feed its nuclear and missile programs.

The cables show some notable moments of success, particularly with the banks. But they also make it clear that stopping Iran from obtaining needed technology was a maddening endeavor, with spies and money-laundering experts chasing shipments and transactions in whack-a-mole fashion, often to be stymied by recalcitrant foreign diplomats.

One cable details how the United States asked the Italians to stop the planned export to Iran of 12 fast boats, which could attack American warships in the gulf. Italy did so only after months of “foot-dragging, during which the initial eleven boats were shipped,” the embassy in Rome reported.

Another cable recounts China’s repeated refusal to act on detailed information about shipments of missile parts from North Korea to Beijing, where they were loaded aboard Iran Air flights to Tehran.

The election of Mr. Obama, at least initially, left some countries wondering whether the sanctions push was about to end. Shortly after taking office, in a videotaped message timed to the Persian New Year, he reiterated his campaign offer of a “new beginning” — the first sustained talks in three decades with Tehran.

The United Arab Emirates called Mr. Obama’s message “confusing.” The American Embassy in Saudi Arabia reported that the talk about engaging Iran had “fueled Saudi fears that a new U.S. administration might strike a ‘grand bargain’ without prior consultations.”

In Europe, Germany and others discerned an effort to grab market share. “According to the British, other EU Member states fear the U.S. is preparing to take commercial advantage of a new relationship with Iran and subsequently are slowing the EU sanctions process,” the American Embassy in London reported.

The administration, though, had a different strategy in mind.

A New Strategy

The man chosen to begin wiping out the confusion was Daniel Glaser, a little-known official with a title that took two breaths to enunciate in full: acting assistant secretary of the Treasury for terrorist financing and financial crimes.

The first big rollout of his message appears to have come in Brussels on March 2 and 3, 2009, during what the cables called “an unprecedented classified briefing” to more than 70 Middle East experts from European governments.

Mr. Glaser got right to the point. Yes, engagement was part of the administration’s overall strategy. “However, ‘engagement’ alone is unlikely to succeed,” Mr. Glaser said. And to those concerned that the offer of reconciliation was open-ended, one cable said, he replied curtly that “time was not on our side.”

The relief among countries supporting sanctions was palpable enough to pierce the cables’ smooth diplomatese. “Iran needs to fear the stick and feel a light ‘tap’ now,” said Robert Cooper, a senior European Union official.

“Glaser agreed, noting the stick could escalate beyond financial measures under a worst case scenario,” a cable said.

The Czechs were identified as surprisingly enthusiastic behind-the-scenes allies. Another section of the same cable was titled “Single Out but Understand the E.U. Foot-Draggers”: Sweden, considered something of a ringleader, followed by Cyprus, Greece, Luxembourg, Spain, Austria, Portugal and Romania.

The decoding of Mr. Obama’s plan was apparently all the Europeans needed, and by year’s end, even Germany, with its suspicions and longstanding trading ties with Iran, appeared to be on board.

Still, there could be little meaningful action without Russia and China. Both are permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, where multilateral action would have to pass, and both possess a global reach that could effectively scuttle much of what the United States tried on its own.

The cables indicate that the administration undertook multilayered diplomatic moves to help ensure that neither would cast a Council veto to protect Iran.

As of early 2010, China imported nearly 12 percent of its oil from Iran and worried that supporting sanctions would imperil that supply. Obama administration officials have previously said that the year before, a senior adviser on Iran, Dennis B. Ross, traveled to Saudi Arabia to seek a guarantee that it would supply the lost oil if China were cut off.

The cables show that Mr. Ross had indeed been in Riyadh, the Saudi capital, in April 2009. While there is no direct account of those meetings, a suggestion of dazzling success turns up later, in cables describing meetings between Saudi and Chinese officials.

The offer may have come during a Jan. 13 meeting in Riyadh between Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi of China and King Abdullah and other senior Saudi officials, one of whom told Mr. Yang, “Saudi Arabia understood China was concerned about having access to energy supplies, which could be cut off by Iran,” according to one cable.

The conversation, evidently shaped by Mr. Ross’s request, developed from there, the cable indicated. A later cable noted simply, “Saudi Arabia has told the Chinese that it is willing to effectively trade a guaranteed oil supply in return for Chinese pressure on Iran not to develop nuclear weapons.”

That left Russia.

Dealing With Russia

Throughout 2009, the cables show, the Russians vehemently objected to American plans for a ballistic missile defense site in Poland and the Czech Republic. Conceived under President Bush and billed as a shield against long-range Iranian missiles that American intelligence said were under development, the site was an irritant to Russia, which contended that it was really designed to shoot down Russian missiles.

In talks with the United States, the Russians insisted that there would be no cooperation on other issues until the Eastern Europe site was scrapped. Those demands crested on July 29, when a senior Russian official repeatedly disrupted a meeting with Russia’s objections, according to one cable.

Six weeks later, Mr. Obama gave the Russians what they wanted: he abruptly replaced the Eastern Europe site with a ship-borne system. That system, at least in its present form, is engineered to protect specific areas against short- and medium-range missiles, not pulverize long-range missiles soaring above the atmosphere. Mr. Obama explained the shift by saying that intelligence assessments had changed, and that the long-range missile threat appeared to be growing more slowly than previously thought.

The cables are silent on whether at some higher level, Russia hinted that Security Council action against Iran would be easier with the site gone. But another secret meeting with the Russians last December, recounted in the cables, may help explain why Mr. Obama was willing to shift focus to the short- and medium-range threat, at least in the near term.

In the meeting, American officials said nothing about a slowing of the long-range threat, as cited by Mr. Obama. In fact, they insisted that North Korea had sent Iran 19 advanced missiles, based on a Russian design, that could clear a path toward the development of long-range missiles. According to unclassified estimates of their range, though, they would also immediately allow Iran to strike Western Europe or Moscow — essentially the threat the revamped system was designed for.

Russia is deeply skeptical that Iran has obtained the advanced missiles, or that their North Korean version, called the BM-25, even exists. “For Russia, the BM-25 is a mysterious missile,” a Russian official said. (That argument was dealt a blow last month, when North Korea rolled out what some experts identified as those very missiles in a military parade.)

Whatever the dynamic, Mr. Obama had removed the burr under the Russians’ saddle, and in January 2010, one cable reported, a senior Russian official “indicated Russia’s willingness to move to the pressure track.”

The cables obtained by WikiLeaks end in February 2010, before the last-minute maneuvering that led to a fourth round of Security Council sanctions and even stiffer measures — imposed by the United States, the Europeans, Australia and Japan — that experts say are beginning to pinch Iran’s economy. But while Mr. Ahmadinejad has recently offered to resume nuclear negotiations, the cables underscore the extent to which Iran’s true intentions remain a mystery.

As Crown Prince bin Zayed of Abu Dhabi put it in one cable: “Any culture that is patient and focused enough to spend years working on a single carpet is capable of waiting years and even decades to achieve even greater goals.” His greatest worry, he said, “is not how much we know about Iran, but how much we don’t.”


Uno de los cables en particular detallando una conversación entre el Gral. Petraeus y el Rey de Bahrein. Imperdible:

Date 2009-11-04 06:44:00

Source Embassy Manama

Classification SECRET//NOFORN

S E C R E T MANAMA 000642

NOFORN

E.O. 12958: DECL: 11/04/2019
TAGS: PREL, MARR, ENRG, BA, AF, IZ, IR, NATO
SUBJECT: GENERAL PETRAEUS WITH KING HAMAD: IRAQ,
AFGHANISTAN, IRAN, NATO AWACS, ENERGY

Classified By: Ambassador Adam Ereli, reasons 1.4(b) and (d).

1. (C) SUMMARY: In an hour-long meeting on November 1 with
CENTCOM Commander General Petraeus, Bahrain's King Hamad said
Arab states need to do more to engage Iraq, discussed
Afghanistan and the positive role India could play, urged
action to stop Iran's nuclear program, and reviewed regional
plans for the peaceful use of nuclear energy. END SUMMARY.

2.(C) IRAQ: King Hamad fully endorsed General Petraeus's
point that increased Arab engagement and influence would help
frustrate Iranian designs in Iraq. He added that the Arabs
need Egyptian and Saudi leadership in this matter and that he
had tried to make this point to the Saudi government, but
with little effect.

3.(C) AFGHANISTAN: General Petraeus praised Bahrain's
commitment of a police company for internal security at FOB
Leatherneck. King Hamad confirmed that he would personally
see the force off at the airport on December 16. This date
will be the 10th anniversary of the King's assuming the
throne, and General Petraeus said that U.S. air assets would
be available on the 16th to transport the company to
Afghanistan. King Hamad inquired about the extent of India's
involvement in Afghanistan and noted that Bahrain saw India
as very positive force in the region. "It's a new era," he
said. "They can be of great help."

4.(C) IRAN: King Hamad pointed to Iran as the source of much
of the trouble in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He argued
forcefully for taking action to terminate their nuclear
program, by whatever means necessary. "That program must be
stopped," he said. "The danger of letting it go on is greater
than the danger of stopping it." King Hamad added that in
light of these regional developments, Bahrain was working to
strengthen GCC coordination and its relations with allies and
international organizations. He specifically mentioned NATO
and confirmed that Bahrain had agreed to the Alliance's
request to use Isa Airbase for AWACS missions, although the
detail on numbers and timing have yet to be discussed.

5.(S/NF) BAHRAIN AIR SHOW AND NUCLEAR ENERGY: King Hamad
asked General Petraeus for his help in encouraging U.S.
aircraft manufacturers to participate in the inaugural
Bahrain Air Show, scheduled for January 2010. He said that
France was pushing the Rafale and would be there in force,
although he agreed with Petraeus that the French fighter was
yesterday's technology. Warming to the subject of French
commercial diplomacy and referring to President Sarkozy, King
Hamad said, "The UAE will give him a hard time soon," over
France's proposed deal for nuclear reactors. "They're not
happy with the project he's offered them." King Hamad also
mentioned that Bahrain was studying options for using nuclear
power to generate electricity. He said he had asked the
Ministers of Foreign Affairs, Interior and Public Works to
present him recommendations and invited the Ambassador to
discuss with them possible U.S. involvement. Post will do so.

ERELI


Destination

INFO LOG-00 EEB-00 AID-00 AMAD-00 ACQ-00 CIAE-00 INL-00
DOEE-00 DOTE-00 PERC-00 DS-00 DHSE-00 EUR-00 FAAE-00
FBIE-00 VCI-00 H-00 TEDE-00 INR-00 IO-00 MOFM-00
MOF-00 VCIE-00 NRC-00 NSAE-00 ISN-00 OES-00 NIMA-00
PM-00 GIWI-00 ISNE-00 DOHS-00 FMPC-00 IRM-00 SSO-00
SS-00 NCTC-00 SCRS-00 PMB-00 DSCC-00 PRM-00 DRL-00
SCA-00 SAS-00 FA-00 SRAP-00 SWCI-00 SEEE-00 SRND-00
SANA-00 /000W
R 040644Z NOV 09
FM AMEMBASSY MANAMA
TO HQ USCENTCOM MACDILL AFB FL
SECSTATE WASHDC 8999
INFO GULF COOPERATION COUNCIL COLLECTIVE
AMEMBASSY BAGHDAD
AMEMBASSY ISLAMABAD
AMEMBASSY KABUL
USMISSION USNATO
COMUSNAVCENT
SECDEF WASHDC

..Summary
King Hamad of Bahrain tells Gen. David H. Petraeus that the United States must rein in Iran’s nuclear program by whatever means necessary. “That program must be stopped,” the king says. “The danger of letting it go on is greater than the danger of stopping it.”


Mismo sentimiento, distinto Monarca:

WikiLeaks exposé: Saudis told U.S. 'Cut off the head of the snake' on Iran

Diplomatic cables to U.S. officials quote leaders of mainly Sunni Arab states urging Iranian nuclear program be stopped 'by whatever means necessary'.

By Reuters

King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia repeatedly exhorted the United States to "cut off the head of the snake" by launching military strikes to destroy Iran's nuclear program, according to leaked U.S. diplomatic cables.

A copy of the cable dated April 20, 2008, was published in the New York Times website on Sunday after being released by the whistleblowing website WikiLeaks. The classified communication between the U.S. Embassy in Riyadh and Washington showed the Saudis feared Shi'ite Iran's rising influence in the region, particularly in neighboring Iraq.

The United States has repeatedly said that the military option is on the table, but at the same time U.S. military chiefs have made clear they view it as a last resort, fearing it could ignite wider conflict in the Middle East.

The April 2008 cable detailed a meeting between General David Petraeus, the top U.S. military commander in the Middle East, and then U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Ryan Crocker, and King Abdullah and other Saudi princes.

At the meeting, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, Adel al-Jubeir "recalled the King's frequent exhortations to the U.S. to attack Iran and so put an end to its nuclear weapons program," the cable said.

"He told you to cut off the head of the snake," Jubeir was reported to have said.


The Saudi foreign minister, Prince Saud al-Faisal, however, pushed for tougher sanctions instead, including a travel ban and further restrictions on bank lending, although he did not rule out the need for military action.

The WikiLeaks documents also show U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates believes any military strike on Iran would only delay its pursuit of a nuclear weapon by one to three years, the Times reported.

'Iran nuclear program must be stopped'

Saudi Arabia, one of the world's top oil producers, is concerned about Iran's growing military strength. The United States announced last month that it plans to sell the kingdom $60 billion worth of military aircraft to help it bolster its defenses.

Britain's Guardian newspaper, one of a number of publications to have had access to the leaked diplomatic cables, said the communications also showed that other Arab allies have secretly agitated for action against Tehran over its disputed nuclear program.

The Guardian quotes documents that show officials in Jordan and Bahrain “openly calling for Iran's nuclear program to be stopped by any means, including military.” The British daily also says leaders in Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Egypt called Iran "evil," and an "existential threat" which "is going to take us to war."

Another cable, sent from the U.S. Embassy in Manama, Bahrain, on Nov. 4, 2009, detailed a meeting between Petraeus and King Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa, whose kingdom is the headquarters of the U.S. Navy's Fifth fleet. Like Saudi Arabia it is a Sunni Muslim-ruled kingdom.

King Hamad argued "forcefully for taking action to terminate (Iran's) nuclear program, by whatever means necessary," the cable said.

"That program must be stopped," he was quoted as saying. "The danger of letting it go on is greater than the danger of stopping it."

Iran denies its nuclear program is a cover to build a nuclear bomb and says it is purely for peaceful purposes.

A UN Security Council resolution passed in June, imposing a fourth round of sanctions, renewed a call on Iran to suspend uranium enrichment, something Tehran has explicitly refused to do, saying such activity is its right under international law.

The top U.S. military officer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen, said in comments released on Friday that the U.S. military has been thinking about military options on Iran "for a significant period of time", but he stressed that diplomacy remained the focus of U.S. efforts.


Wikileaks dispatch: Iran's Khamenei 'has cancer'

Supreme Leader is terminally ill and could die in a few months, claims Iranian source in leaked U.S. diplomatic cable.

U.S. diplomatic cables released by online whistle-blower Wikileaks include remarks from an Iran source in 2009 saying Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has terminal cancer, French daily Le Monde reported.

The source, a non-Iranian businessman based in Central Asia and travelling often to Tehran, "has learned from one of his contacts that (former president Ali Akbar) Rafsanjani told him Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei has terminal stage leukaemia and could die in a few months", according to an August 2009 cable.

The document, written by a U.S. diplomat, says that Rafsanjani, a critic of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who has expressed sympathies with Iran's reformist movement, decided on learning of Khamenei's illness to start preparing himself to be
a successor.

As Supreme Leader since 1989 Khamenei has final say on policy in the Islamic Republic, which is locked in a stand-off with key world powers over the nature of its nuclear activities.

The document cited by Le Monde is one of thousands of cables leaked by the Wikileaks website at the weekend that reveal confidential views and information from senior U.S. diplomats overseas that would normally remain confidential for decades.

Le Monde, one of a handful of newspapers around the world given access to the cables, said the Iran documents showed Washington relied on a network of Iran-watchers in the Middle East to shed light on a country it sees as an enigma.

The United States broke diplomatic relations with Iran 30 years ago after fundamentalist students in Iran seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and held staff there hostage for 444 days.


Imperialista entregado a las Fuerzas Capitalistas del Mal

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