Todo sobre el T-50 y F/A-50 Golden Eagle

[maximo]

¿Aceptables?

Por eso iba entre comillas Digamos que lo que ha salido de ese programa, al menos vuela. O sea, aceptable. Por eso decia que hay que esperar a ver que sale del proyecto coreano. Porque una cosa es la ambicion, y otra ver que sale de todo eso. Que el LCA iba a ser la leche y miralo... Asi que esperemos a ver que tal resulta el T-50, no vaya a resultar un avion "aceptable".

Con la notoria excepción del T-38/F-5.

¡LEÑE! Creia que no lo ibas a mencionar nunca y llevaba varios dias con la respuesta preparada. Es que el T-38 es un derivado del F-5, y no al contrario. Cuando diseñaron el caza ligero, la unica manera de colocarselo a los gringos fue en su version de entrenador. Pero su concepcion siempre fue de caza ligero, su uso como entrenador es solo una derivada de sus buenas cualidades. Pero Northrop lo concibio desde el principio como proyecto de caza ligero.

Como inversión a largo plazo pienso yo que es la decisión correcta. Ellos siempre podrán recuperar parte o todo de lo invertido exportando.

Ahi estoy de acuerdo. Pero este es un paso demasiado inicial. Practicamente dependen en todo de fuera, no obstante es un paso que hay que dar.

[__DiaMoND__]

con unos Erieye y algunos de estos cazas ligeros

te armas una fuerza aerea bastante capable

por pocos dolares.

[maximo]

Pues la verdad es que la plataforma esta perdiendo buena parte de su importancia. Si las cosas siguen por este camino, la profusion de medios de guerra electronica, control aereo, planificacion del campo de batalla, y todos estos gadget tan modernos que cada vez mas estan al alcance de todo el mundo... Pues si todo eso sigue por ese camino van a terminar convirtiendo al Tornado ADV en un excelente avion de caza. Total, lo unico importante va a ser llegar a la posicion de disparo y punto. Todo lo demas va a sobrar... Claro que esa es la misma teoria de hace cincuenta años y todavia no ha pasado.

Lo que es cierto es que dotarse de una Fuerza Aerea "peligrosa" ya no pasa necesariamente por comprarte el mejor avion. Puedes llegar a tener mas peligro invirtiendo en cosas como el Erieye (o similares) y cazas mas modestos, que comprando supercazas en cantidades siempre insuficientes que actuen casi en solitario. Una de las razones por las cuales el material ruso se ve penalizado para el futuro es la dificultad de integrar esas plataformas en una red de defensa moderna... y occidental. Seria cojonudo que los rusos ofrecieran soluciones asequibles y de nivel aceptable en el campo AEW y de control de batalla aerea, pero no tienen nada similar al Erieye en catalogo, asi que practicamente los SU trentaitantos que se han comprado por ahi estan condenados a actuar bajo sistemas de mando y control muy superados y eso no tiene pintas de cambiar en el futuro.

[Mauricio]

Pues la verdad es que la plataforma esta perdiendo buena parte de su importancia.

Como te decía Manolo... en 20 años el Eagle SG va a estar cumpliendo su misión con tanta efectividad como lo hace hoy.

Oye, eso si que es dejar el manguito bajo.

¡LEÑE! Creia que no lo ibas a mencionar nunca y llevaba varios dias con la respuesta preparada. Es que el T-38 es un derivado del F-5, y no al contrario. Cuando diseñaron el caza ligero, la unica manera de colocarselo a los gringos fue en su version de entrenador.

Es lo mismo que ocurre con el T-50. Desde el principio se sabía que iba a haber un A-50 y un F/A-50... sacaron al LIFT primero porque era el más sencillo de terminar.

A mí no se me ocurre nada en el mercado que pueda reemplazar al Talon en capacidades. El M-346 quizás...

[ASCUA]

Pues la verdad es que la plataforma esta perdiendo buena parte de su importancia.

Claro... y por eso el Raptor y el Tifón y el Rafale, son unos ladrillos volantes.

Como te decía Manolo... en 20 años el Eagle SG va a estar cumpliendo su misión con tanta efectividad como lo hace hoy.

Y dentro de 20 años lo sustituirá el Silent Eagle... ¿a que si?

[Mauricio]

UAE Reopens Talks To Buy T-50 Trainer

Published: 27 Jan 2010 12:45

ROME - The United Arab Emirates has reopened talks to acquire the South Korean built T-50 jet trainer after discussions to buy its rival, Italy's M-346 trainer, stalled, an Arabian Gulf defense source said Jan. 27.

The United Arab Emirates selected the Alenia Aermacchi M-346 in February 2009 to fill a 48-aircraft order, including 20 in the light fighter version. Alenia Aermacchi is a unit of Finmeccanica. The M-346 beat out the T-50, which is built by Korean Aerospace Industry (KAI), teamed with Lockheed Martin.

But negotiations to sign a contract for the Italian aircraft, reportedly worth 1 billion euros ($1.4 billion), have stalled, said the source. "There was a misunderstanding between senior officials in the UAE and Finmeccanica leadership over specifications," he said.

"Some components they thought they were getting were not included. The UAE went back to the Koreans and is in advanced talks. They are back to the T-50 and a new deal could come very soon," added the source, who is familiar with the acquisition program.

The source did not specify what components had created the problem, or whether talks with Aermacchi might resume. It was not clear if the resumption of talks with KAI was a negotiating tactic or signaled a definitive break with Aermacchi.

A spokesman for Finmeccanica declined to comment on whether the United Arab Emirates was now talking to KAI. "It is a complex deal and our negotiations are going ahead," he said.

Lockheed officials couldn't be reached for comment.

The M-346 and T-50 are considered to be among the best advanced training aircraft on the market. Although they have been purchased by their respective home customers, the Air Forces of Italy and South Korea, the UAE contest was their first duel in international markets, with the M-346 appearing to claim victory.

They are also shortlisted in Singapore's jet trainer contest and both will be making display flights at the Singapore Air Show next week.

Italy was the launch customer for the M-346, agreeing to purchase a small number of the aircraft last year just before the Dubai Air Show.

Quién sabe... quizás pretendan mejorar su posición vis-a-vis Finmeccanica. Pero de cualquier modo les deseo la mejor de las suertes a KAI. El avioncito es todo un logro... y ganarle este contrato a Alenia-Aermacchi sería un golazo.

[Mauricio]

¿De dónde sacan ideas así?

Seoul Hotel Break-In Has Makings of a Spy Novel

By MARK McDONALD
Published: February 21, 2011

SEOUL, South Korea — Police officials are investigating a mysterious break-in at the five-star Lotte Hotel, an odd bit of cloak and dagger in Room 1961 whose storyline includes bumbling spies caught red-handed, negotiations for a supersonic jet fighter, a stolen laptop and a conveniently timed meeting with the president of South Korea.

Accounts from the police, local news media, government officials and hotel employees laid out a whodunit tale of the break-in, which took place last Wednesday when visiting Indonesian government and military officials left their rooms at the Lotte for a late-morning meeting with President Lee Myung-bak.

The Indonesians went to the Blue House, the presidential residence and offices, to discuss the purchase of military jets from the government-backed Korea Aerospace Industries. (The Korean plane, the T-50 Golden Eagle, is an advanced jet trainer that can be upgraded to a fighter-bomber. It is being considered for purchase by the Indonesians, who are also considering a subsonic Russian plane, the Yak-130.)

The Indonesians, traveling with their own security personnel, left their rooms unguarded, with their work computers and private documents inside, the police and Indonesian officials said later. The Indonesian group comprised as many as 50 people, reports said, including Defense Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro.

Soon after the Indonesians left their rooms, two men and a woman went up to the 19th floor and entered Room 1961, the police said. Inside were two laptops.

One version of the events, first reported by the newspaper Chosun Ilbo, said that the woman was there when an Indonesian aide returned to the room — his room — and surprised her. She said she had entered the room by mistake, then quickly left.

According to another account, the Indonesian man had interrupted the woman while she was downloading files from a laptop into a small U.S.B. drive.

Meanwhile, the men whom the police have described as her accomplices were discovered in a stairwell with a laptop that did not belong to them. It had been taken from Room 1961, and the Indonesian aide had reported the theft to the hotel. Minutes later, when a hotel employee confronted the men in the stairwell, they handed over the laptop and fled.

Subsequent reports in the press and from the police have implicated the National Intelligence Service, South Korea’s principal spy agency. Chosun Ilbo said the intelligence service’s agents had been seeking information on the jet deal and other possible military sales.

The police precinct commander, Seo Beom-kyu, said Monday that a spy agency investigator appeared at the Namdaemun police station at 3:40 on the morning after the break-in, asking to speak to the chief of detectives overseeing the case. It was not immediately clear what the agent was seeking.

A spokesman for the spy agency declined on Monday to comment on the matter. The Blue House also declined to comment.

“Even if it turns out it was the N.I.S., there wouldn’t be any real benefit in punishing them, now, would there?” said the national police chief, Cho Hyun-oh. “If the N.I.S. did it, it was for our own national interests.”

A spokesman for the Indonesian Defense Ministry, Brig. Gen. Wayan Midhio, denied Monday evening that a military laptop or secret data had been stolen. He said a staff aide to the coordinating minister for economic affairs, Hatta Rajasa, had his laptop taken by another hotel guest. The guest, the general said, had entered the staff member’s room by mistake, thinking it was the guest’s own room. Then the guest took the laptop, thinking it was his or her own.

General Wayan said the room was being cleaned when the incident took place. “Because the room was open,” he said, “the person thought it was their room. But as soon as they saw the laptop wasn’t theirs they returned it to the receptionist.”

The general said no one in the Indonesian delegation was carrying secret military information. “The laptop did not belong to the Defense Ministry,” he said.

A South Korean Foreign Ministry spokesman said Monday that Jakarta had asked for an official inquiry. The spokesman, Cho Byung-jae, said, “We agreed to inform them as soon as we are done.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/world ... .html?_r=2

[Mauricio]

Primer pedido de exportación. ¡Enhorabuena!

Indonesia orders 16 T-50 trainers

By Greg Waldron

Indonesia has placed a $400 million order for 16 Korea Aerospace Industries T-50 Golden Eagle advanced jet trainers, the type's first export sale.

The Indonesian Defense Ministry signed the deal on Wednesday, said Enes Park, executive vice president of KAI. The contract stipulates that the aircraft must be delivered 18 months after the signing of a loan agreement between the South Korean and Indonesian governments.

The announcement follows a 12 April letter the Indonesian government sent to KAI designating the South Korean firm as the preferred bidder to replace Indonesia's BAE Systems Hawk 53s. The letter all but sealed the fate of the T-50's rivals in the competition, the Aero Vodochody L-159 and Yakovlev Yak-130.

The 16 General Electric F404-powered aircraft will be produced at the KAI facilities in Sacheon, South Korea. They will shipped to Indonesia partially disassembled, where Indonesia state aircraft manufacturer PT Dirgantara Indonesia/Indonesian Aerospace (IAe) will reassemble them.

"The aircraft is certainly capable of being ferried, but transporting them meets Indonesian industrial regulations," says Park. "(Re-assembling) the aircraft will help them improve their capabilities."

Despite the best efforts of KAI and the South Korean government, theT-50 lost trainer competitions in both the United Arab Emirates and Singapore to the Alenia Aermacchi M-346.

The T-50 will again square off against its rival in Israel and the USA. In 2012, the Israeli Air Force will decide between the T-50 and M-346 to replaces its Douglas A-4 Skyhawk trainers. In early May, Alenia Aermacchi general manager Alessandra Franzoni said America's T-X competition to replace the 1960s era Northrop T-38C will be a two horse race between the T-50 and M-346.

Park adds that there could be a possibility of selling Indonesia the T-50's combat variant, the F/A-50. "While there have been no concrete discussions on this, there is a distinct possibility of this in the future."

Indonesia is also still involved in South Korea's proposed KF-X programme, says Park. At the Farnborough air show in 2010, South Korea signed a memorandum of understanding with Indonesia, with the latter to potentially contribute up to 20% of the KF-X development costs. Indonesia is currently looking at how it might participate in the project.

The T-50 buy is just the latest example of Jakarta's efforts to upgrade the nation's air force. In November 2010, it purchased eight Embraer EMB-314 Super Tucano light attack aircraft to replace Vietnam War-era Rockwell OV-10 Broncos. In January 2011 it awarded Arinc Engineering Services a $66.7 million contract to modernise five Lockheed Martin C-130Bs.

Indonesia is also considering upgrading its 10 Lockheed Martin F-16A/B fighters. Media reports have said Jakarta will buy 24 ex-US Air Force F-16s, but this has not been officially announced by either Washington or Jakarta.

[Mauricio]

La nota de Aviation Week. Una noticia muy importante para el programa luego de haber perdido dos concursos al M-346:

Indonesia Orders 16 T-50s From Korea Aerospace

May 27, 2011

By Bradley Perrett

SEOUL — Korea Aerospace Industries will deliver 16 T-50 Golden Eagle supersonic trainers to Indonesia in 2013 under a $400 million contract.

The deal further deepens defense technology ties between the two countries.

It is a breakthrough for Korea Aerospace, whose previous attempts at exporting the T-50 have all failed. In this case, it prevailed over two other shortlisted candidates, the Yakovlev Yak-130 and the Czech Aero L-159B.

Korea Aerospace will build the 16 aircraft and fly them in South Korea before dissembling them for shipping to Indonesia, where they will be reassembled and put through their final acceptance trials, an industry official says.

Although not announced as such, the version to be built for Indonesia is evidently the TA-50, which can be used as an attack aircraft. The official says the aircraft will have a gun and weapons pylons, features of the TA-50.

Korea Aerospace developed the T-50 series with considerable help from Lockheed Martin. Its platform is based on Lockheed Martin’s F-16, which Indonesia operates. Indonesia’s T-50s will replace BAE Systems Hawk Mk. 53 trainers.

Among other cooperative arms projects, Indonesia and South Korea signed a memorandum of understanding in July to collaborate in developing the latter’s proposed KF-X fighter. South Korea also will help produce Indonesia’s Anoa armored personnel carrier.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... =Indonesia Orders 16 T-50s From Korea Aerospace

[Apónez]

Pensaba que Indonesia solía adquirir equipo ruso ¿que habrá pasado para que dejasen de lado el Yak-130? Por que los rusos no suelen tener problemas a la hora de vender licencias

[Experten]

Está claro que el T-50 es un avión más completo que el Yak-130, es mucho más pesado, mucho más potente y bastante más desarrollado a estas alturas.

[ASCUA]

El EdA español ya tiene un informe, de primera mano (CLAEX), sobre el italiano y el coreano. Del primo ruso del italiano, por razones obvias, no hay informe.
Y referido puramente a cualidades tecnicas...
Obviamente aquí lo que para uno puede valer, para otro no tanto; así que es simplemente "la" elección del EdA.
Prefieren al coreano...

Debo reconocer que me sorprendio... Así a primera vista el italiano pone sobre la mesa mas "moderneces" que el coreano, lo que, a priori, le haría partir con ventaja, pienso yo...
Pero está claro que algo tiene el coreano que, para sustituir a nuestros F-5B le pone claramente en ventaja sobre el italiano...

[Mauricio]

Primer pedido de la versión de caza F/A-50.

Seoul places $600m order for 20 FA-50s 

By Greg Waldron
Singapore 11:00 4 Jan 2012

South Korea has placed a $600 million order with Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) for 20 examples of the FA-50 attack variant of the T-50 advanced jet trainer.

KAI said that under the deal it will deliver the aircraft from 2013 to 2014. Seoul could acquire a total of 60 to 150 FA-50s to replace its fleet of more than 150 Northrop F-5s.

The FA-50 is the most advanced variant of the T-50. It will have the Link 16 tactical data link, as well as an Elta Systems EL/M-2032 pulse doppler radar.

Northrop Grumman and Raytheon have said the FA-50 is a candidate for their respective active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars developed for the Lockheed Martin F-16. If the FA-50 does get an AESA radar, it is likely to be the same one chosen for the eventual F-16 radar upgrade for the US Air Force and Republic of Korea Air Force.

The FA-50 also has a radar warning recover and a night vision imaging system. It is capable of carrying 4,500kg (9,920lb) of weapons, including the Boeing Joint Direct Attack Munition and Textron CBU-97 Sensor Fused Weapon. Like the TA-50, it also has a 20mm cannon and can carry air-to-air missiles.

Aside from the original T-50 and FA-50, KAI has also produced the T-50B enhanced manoeuvrability aerobatic variant and armed TA-50. All of these are powered by a single General Electric F404 engine.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 0s-366500/

[ecuatoriano]

Me encontré esta noticia en IHS JANES DEFENSE WEKLEY del 22 de febrero, en la página 17

Israel picks M-346 trainer over T-50.

En corto:

30 aviones por 1 billón de USD a entregar desde 2014

Según las fuentes israelies ambos aviones similares pero seleccionaron el avión italiano sobre el koreano debido a menores costos de entrenamiento y a la mejor calidad en vuelos de entrenamiento, además los OFFSET italianos para IAI.

Israel comprende que ROK se enoje por el tema pero no mucho. .

http://theaviationist.com/2012/02/16/346-iaf/

[ecuatoriano]

IHS Jane´s Defence Weekly, 8 August 2012

Philippines confirms T/A-50 purchase

The Phillippine departament of National Defence (DND) has chosen the Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) T/A-50 to fulfil the Philippine Air Force's (PAF's) requeriment for a light attack trainer.

El pedido es por 12 aparatos.