Todo sobre el MBT Arjun

Los Ejércitos terrestres del mundo. Actualidad, orden de batalla, operaciones. La Legión Extranjera Francesa. Tanques, blindados y otro armamento.
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charlie
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no creo que sea gran problema, pero si hay que disenar otro sabot.

salud :shock:


lobbysta ad honorem por la recuperacion completa del LTP.
alejandro_
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no creo que sea gran problema, pero si hay que disenar otro sabot.


Gracias Charly por el detalle, voy a ver si encuentro más información.

Saludos.


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charlie
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hay cosas que un sabot de anima rayada debe tener a diferencia del anima lisa, por ejemplo deberia llevar algun metodo para retener la rotacion.


salud :shock:


lobbysta ad honorem por la recuperacion completa del LTP.
alejandro_
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Un interesante mensaje sobre los mitos y realidades del Arjun. El autor es un antiguo coronel del ejército indio:

Nailing some more falsehoods about the Arjun tank... and some about the T-90!

False argument No 1: The Arjun tank, after decades of failure, can’t suddenly have turned the corner!

It hasn’t “suddenly turned the corner”. It turned the corner very gradually, from around mid-2004. A major landmark came in early 2005, when the problem of the hydro pneumatic suspension unit (HSU) was licked. And in June 2005, the Arjun was to prove its capability in comparative trials in the Mahajan Field Firing Ranges (MFFR); the army agreed to comparative trials involving 5 Arjuns, 5 T-72s and 5 T-90s.

That turned out to be a total fiasco! The Arjun’s electronics packed up in the heat and the trials were over even before they began. The generals who came, including the Western Army Commander, laughed all the way back to their helicopters. The chief, who was to fly in for the trials was rung up and told not to take the trouble.

THAT WAS THE TURNING POINT.

The CVRDE put in a huge effort to heat-harden its electronics, which is something that bears fruit today. While the T-90 is now looking for air-conditioners, the post-2005 electronics in the Arjun can function flawlessly through 60 degrees.

In summer 2006, stringent firing trials by 43 Armoured Regiment established --- in the words of the army’s own trial team --- that the "accuracy and consistency of the Arjun tank was proved beyond doubt".

Later that year, the MoD stated to Parliament’s Standing Committee on Defence that, "Arjun's firing accuracy is far superior to the other two tanks."

In summer 2007, when the army was being pressured to conduct comparative trials, the DGMF raised another objection: the Arjun should be able to drive for 20 minutes in six feet of water. By the end of 2007, the CVRDE managed that as well.

In the Accelerated Usage cum Reliability Trials (AUCRT), which was held in five phases over the first half of this year, the Arjun had problems in the transmission system (not the MTU engine as widely reported, but the Renk transmission) during the first three phases. Engineers from Renk GMbH, Germany came and fixed that and in the last two phases, which were the really tough, heavy desert, hot weather phases, the Arjun performed flawlessly.

The process of turning the corner has been a slow one, but it symbolises exactly why one should go for an Indian tank: each drawback was analysed by our engineers, fixed according to the users’ instructions, and then delivered back to the users without charging them a penny. Contrast that with the problems with the T-90’s electronics. Nobody is fixing that problem; instead, the Russians are trying to sell us air-conditioners. Added expense, and an inefficient solution compared to heat-hardening the electronics, the way the CVRDE did.

False argument No 2: The manufacturers of T-90 have 5 decades of experience under their belt. The T-90 is drawn from the bloodline of T-72 and T-55, both of which are battle proven.

Even the Russians are not buying into the myth of the T-90. That tank entered service with the Russian Army around 1996 and, till today, there are barely 250 T-90s defending Mother Russia! India has more T-90s in service than the Russian Army… and once we implement the full contract, we will have 6 times more T-90s than the Russian Army.

I wonder why the Russian Army isn’t accepting such a blue-blooded tank with such a fine pedigree??? The Russian Army prefers to use: 2144 numbers of T-72s, 3044 numbers of T-80s, 689 numbers of T-62s (plus 3000 more in storage), and even 1000 rickety old T-55s.

Sorry, but there are no more orders from Russia for T-90s.

False argument No 3: The soldiers who operate the Arjun doubt its capabilities as a frontline tank.

The Arjun tank has been operated by 43 Armoured Regiment since over a decade; 43 is delighted with the tank. I have a very close friend who commanded that regiment and he always argued that a regiment of Arjun tanks was worth two regiments of T-72s. And this was even before the Arjun turned the corner!

After the firing trials in June 2006, 43 Armoured Regiment pronounced itself delighted with the Arjun’s firing performance. As I said above, 43 Armoured Regiment endorsed in its trial report, “The accuracy and consistency of the Arjun has been proved beyond doubt.” The brigade commander, Brigadier Chandra Mukesh, himself from 43 Armoured Regiment, endorsed that report whole-heartedly.

But the DGMF was quick to strike back. Barely three months after that report, the commanding officer of 43 Armoured Regiment, Colonel D Thakur, was confronted by then DGMF, Lt Gen DS Shekhawat. Several eyewitnesses have described to me how Colonel Thakur was upbraided by Lt Gen Shekhawat for “not conducting the trials properly”. Fortunately for Colonel Thakur, his brigade commander, Brigadier Chandra Mukesh, intervened and argued strongly that the trials had been conducted in accordance with procedure.

Talk to the crewmen, the drivers, gunners, operators… and you’ll get an even clearer endorsement. They all love the modular construction of the Arjun, which makes maintenance so easy. Changing a T-72 engine takes a full day; changing an Arjun engine takes a couple of hours.

Minister of State for Defence Production, Rao Inderjeet Singh recounts, “I’ve spoken, off the record, to officers who have gone through the trials. Even the crews (from 43 Armoured Regiment)… who have been testing the tank… I forced them to choose between the Russian tanks and the Arjun. I said, you’ve driven this tank and you’ve driven that tank (the T-90). Now mark them out of ten, which tank is better? And I’ve found that the Arjun tank was given more numbers than the T-90 tank.”

False argument No 4: The army has several objections to accepting the Arjun. Somebody writes, “After all, this is NOT pakistan where the generals are not accountable to anyone.”

The most astonishing part of the Arjun story is that the army (read DGMF) really doesn’t have a clear list of objections to the Arjun. Their objections vary from day to day, and with who they are talking to. Some of their objections --- such as that of the Arjun’s 60-ton weight --- run counter to the army’s own GSQR.

What is clear is that the MoD is happy with the Arjun. According to the Parliamentary Standing Committee for Defence’s last annual report for 2007-08, the MoD testified before the Committee that the Arjun tank was:

• “A product unique in its class”, and “an improved system over the T-72.”

• “Rs 6-8 crores cheaper than its contemporary system in the West”.

• “Far superior (in firing accuracy) to the other two tanks (T-72 and T-90)”.

• “Driven for over 60,000 kms and fired more than 8,000 rounds. There was no problem.”

So you judge: if that's what the MoD is saying... aren't the generals conveying an entirely false impression?

False argument No 5: The Arjun failed the AUCRT this summer

As I mentioned above, the Arjun performed creditably during the AUCRT, once Renk solved the transmission system problem.

But what is far more important is the fact that AUCRT is not a “performance trials”. It is not possible for a tank to “pass” or “fail” the AUCRT. The purpose of the AUCRT is to run a small number of tanks for thousands of kilometres and make them fire hundreds of rounds, basically putting them through their entire service lifespan in a few months. The aim of doing this is to evaluate what spares get consumed during the life-span of the tank; what maintenance and overhaul tasks should be scheduled at what stage of a tank’s life; an AUCRT evaluates a tank’s logistical needs, not its operational performance.

But when the transmission gave some problems in the first three phases of AUCRT, the DGMF was quick to seize the chance to bad-mouth the tank, and to convey the false impression that the Arjun had “failed its trials”.

THE ONLY TRIALS THAT WILL EFFECTIVELY EVALUATE THE ARJUN’S OPERATIONAL CAPABILITY --- AND THAT TOO IN COMPARISON TO ITS RUSSIAN RIVALS --- ARE COMPARATIVE TRIALS, ORGANISED BY A THIRD PARTY WITHOUT VESTED INTERESTS IN THE OUTCOME. THAT MUST BE DEMANDED BY THE MoD.


http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2008/07/ ... about.html

No deja de ser curioso que aclare los mitos del Arjun repitiendo algunos de los carros soviéticos. Eso de que no hay más pedidos de T-90 es para enmarcar. :mrgreen:


alejandro_
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¿A alguien le parece normal esta foto de trabajadores en un Arjun?

http://bp2.blogger.com/_o_no4M2xEPY/SJh ... 751793.jpg

Los trabajadores llevan chanclas, y estás trabajando descalzos y sin mono/bata!

:shock:


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Mauricio
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Meh... es India.

¿Tu has visto cómo desguazan barcos en Alang?


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alejandro_
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¿Tu has visto cómo desguazan barcos en Alang?


Por supuesto, pero los chatarreros indios no tienen que competir con Leo-2, Abrams y sobre todo T-90. No deja de ser un descuido publicar una foto así, cuando el carro no termina de funcionar y el ejército está deseando quitarse el carro de encima. Luego uno se sorprende cuando la munición india estalla dentro del carro :roll:

Saludos.


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Mauricio
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Meh... es India.

Inclusive cuando estalla donde debe, no hay garantía de que el cañón no salga disparado también.


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alejandro_
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El ejército indio recibe 16 Arjun, recemos por sus tripulantes :twisted:

http://www.indopia.in/India-usa-uk-news ... nal/1/20/1


alejandro_
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Un periódico informa que en las pruebas conjuntas realizadas, el Arjun se ha mostrado superior al T-90S:

Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90

India’s home-built Arjun tank has emerged a conclusive winner from its showdown with the Russian T-90. A week of comparative trials, conducted by the army at the Mahajan Ranges, near Bikaner in Rajasthan, has ended; the results are still officially secret. But, Business Standard has learned from multiple sources who were involved in the trials that the Arjun tank has outperformed the T-90 on every crucial parameter.

The trial pitted one squadron (14 tanks) of Arjuns against an equal number of T-90s. Each squadron was given three tactical tasks; each involved driving across 50 kilometres of desert terrain and then shooting at a set of targets. Each tank had to fire at least 10 rounds, stationary and on the move, with each hit being carefully logged. In total, each tank drove 150 kilometres and fired between 30-50 rounds. The trials also checked the tanks’ ability to drive through a water channel 5-6 feet deep.

The Arjun tanks, the observers all agreed, performed superbly. Whether driving cross-country over rugged sand-dunes; detecting, observing and quickly engaging targets; or accurately hitting targets, both stationery and moving, with pinpoint gunnery; the Arjun demonstrated a clear superiority over the vaunted T-90.

“The Arjun could have performed even better, had it been operated by experienced crewmen”, says an officer who has worked on the Arjun. “As the army’s tank regiments gather experience on the Arjun, they will learn to exploit its capabilities.” With the trial report still being compiled — it is expected to reach Army Headquarters after a fortnight — neither the army, nor the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), which developed the Arjun tank in Chennai at the Central Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE), are willing to comment officially about the trials.

The importance of this comparative trial can be gauged from a list of those who attended. Witnessing the Arjun in action were most of the army’s senior tank generals, including the Director General of Mechanised Forces, Lt Gen D Bhardwaj; strike corps commander, Lt Gen Anil Chait; Army Commander South, Lt Gen Pradeep Khanna; and Deputy Chief of the Army Staff, Lt Gen JP Singh. The Director General of Military Operations, Lt Gen AS Sekhon also attended the trials.

Over the last four months, the army had systematically signalled that it did not want to buy more Arjuns. The message from senior officers was — 124 Arjun tanks have been bought already; no more would be ordered for the army’s fleet of 4000 tanks. The comparative trial, or so went the message, was merely to evaluate what operational role could be given to the army’s handful of Arjuns.

“The senior officers who attended the trials were taken aback by the Arjun’s strong performance,” an officer who was present through the trials frankly stated. “But they were also pleased that the Arjun had finally come of age.”

The army’s Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), which has bitterly opposed buying more Arjuns, will now find it difficult to sustain that opposition. In keeping out the Arjun, the DGMF has opted to retain the already obsolescent T-72 tank in service for another two decades, spending thousands of crores in upgrading its vintage systems.

Now, confronted with the Arjun’s demonstrated capability, the army will face growing pressure to order more Arjuns.

The current order of 124 Arjuns is equipping the army’s 140 Armoured Brigade in Jaisalmer. With that order almost completed, the Arjun production line at the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) in Avadi, near Chennai, needs more orders urgently. The Rs 50 crore facility can churn out 50 Arjuns annually. That would allow for the addition of close to one Arjun regiment each year (a regiment is authorised 62 tanks).

Tank experts point out that conducting trials only in Mahajan does not square with the army’s assertion that they are evaluating a role for the Arjun. Says Major General HM Singh, who oversaw the Arjun’s development for decades, “If they were evaluating where the Arjun should be deployed, they should have conducted the trials in different types of terrain: desert, semi-desert, plains and riverine. It seems as if the army has already decided to employ the Arjun in the desert.”

The Arjun’s sterling performance in the desert raises another far-reaching question: should the Arjun — with its proven mobility, firepower and armour protection — be restricted to a defensive role or should it equip the army’s strike corps for performing a tank’s most devastating (and glamorous) role: attacking deep into enemy territory during war? Each strike corps has 8-9 tank regiments. If the army recommends the Arjun for a strike role, that would mean an additional order of about 500 Arjuns.

But Business Standard has learned that senior officers are hesitant to induct the Arjun into strike corps. Sources say the Arjun will be kept out of strike formations on the grounds that it is incompatible with other strike corps equipment, e.g. assault bridges that cannot bear the 60-tonne weight of the Arjun.


http://www.business-standard.com/india/ ... 90/389650/[/code]


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ICBM44
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Que curioso que sea superior al T90S :mrgreen: , lo dudo pero bueno si asi lo dicen los Indios. :wink:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ssian-T-90


alejandro_
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Que curioso que sea superior al T90S


Bueno, tiene una suspensión más avanzada, y en las pruebas el cañón tiene que ser also más preciso porque es de ánima rayada. De todas maneras, es un nota de periódico, y viendo el lobby pro-Arjun, lo tomaría con cautela. Los mismos que hoy hablan de la superioridad del Arjun afirmaban hace poco que las pruebas iban a ser hechas de tal manera que ganase el T-90.

En cualquier caso, el ejército indio no quiere ver al carro ni en pintura.

Saludos.


depreyautja
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lo de las pruebas donde se "demostro" la superioridad sobre el T-90 ya las habia escuchado,pero simplemente no tiene logica,una de las principales quejas era el motor y sobre todo el deficiente sistema de control de tiro,¿en unos cuantos meses solucionaron eso?....¿si es tan espectacular el tanque porque siguen comprando tanques rusos y no tanques arjun?.....simplemente no lo creo.


delta 021
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EL EJERCITO DE LA INDIA QUIERE COMPRAR MAS TANQUES ARJUN

Categoria: Ejercito - 15-04-2010 07:29

El éxito del tanque principal de batalla Arjun (MBT), construido en la India, en ensayos del desierto el mes pasado está generando pedidos adicionales del ejército para un tanque que está emergiendo como un éxito notable de investigación y desarrollo. Mientras tanto, el Arjun está llegando a ser más capaz. La Organización de Investigación y Desarrollo para la Defensa (DRDO), que lo diseñó, dice que todos los futuros Arjun incorporarán mejoras importantes, incluyendo la capacidad de disparar misiles antitanques y tener protección adicional del blindaje.
El estándar del negocio había divulgado que el tanque de Arjun había superado al T-90 ruso que, actualmente es el MBT de primera línea del ejército, en ensayos conducidos a principios de marzo en la brigada armada 180 basada en Bikaner. El ejército todavía está evaluando ese informe de ensayo para decidir cuántos tanques Arjun debe pedir adicionalmente, sobre el pedido existente de 124 MBT.

El DRDO, mientras tanto, está trabajando en horas extras para concretar el contrato. S Sundaresh, el principal regulador del DRDO para los armamentos y la ingeniería de combate, ha dicho que todos los Arjun hasta ahora pedidos dispararán misiles dirigidos antitanques a través del cañón principal del tanque y proporcionaran una protección adicional para la tripulación a través de la armadura reactiva explosiva, o ERA. Además serán equipados con las vistas panorámicas de proyección de imagen termal que permiten que el comandante del Arjun explore sus alrededores incluso por la noche e incorpora por lo menos siete mejoras más sobre el actual Arjun. Se habían realizado pruebas de disparo con el misil israelí LAHAT a través de la parte posterior del cañón del Arjun en el 2005, pero tomará cerca de seis meses poder integrar el designador del LAHAT en el sistema de control de disparo del Arjun. :conf:

La suma de dos toneladas del ERA aumentará el peso del Arjun algo más de 60 toneladas, haciéndole uno de los tanques más pesados del mundo. Pero, el DRDO demanda que su motor de gran alcance y con una potencia de 1.500 caballos, maneja fácilmente el peso adicional. El ERA protegerá a la tripulación del Arjun contra los misiles enemigos. Colocaremos inicialmente la misma ERA rusa que protege al T-90 y al T-72. Pero, también desarrollaremos nuestra propia ERA a futuro.
Una orden anticipada del ejército sería crucial, dice el DRDO, para la continuidad en la cadena de producción del Arjun en la fábrica pesada de vehículos (HVF) cerca de Chennai. La orden actual de 124 tanques Arjun ocupará la cadena de producción hasta finales del 2011. Para poder cumplir con la orden siguiente de Arjun se debería continuar con la cadena de producción, para eso la orden tendría que ser puesta ahora. Eso daría un plazo de 18 meses para el aprovisionamiento de componentes, tales como planchas de la armadura y los subsistemas que son fabricados por los proveedores secundarios. Ese período también abastece de la compra de sistemas extranjeros, como el motor de MTU, en Alemania. La continuidad es vital para el control de calidad, explica un funcionarios de HVF Avadi. Se han instituido los sistemas para el control de calidad en la orden actual de Arjun, pero estos sistemas se envejecerán si la cadena de producción cierra por la carencia de órdenes. Puesto que el ensamble del Arjun toma de 12 a 18 meses, una orden actual de Arjun comenzará a ser entregada dentro de 30 a 36 meses después de que la orden es confirmada. Después de eso, HVF entregará 30 Arjun por año si opera con apenas una turno de trabajadores; 50 tanques por año con dos turnos.


GRITA DEVASTACION Y SUELTA A LOS PERROS DE LA GUERRA.
Julio César,Shakespeare
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